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Post by chris on Sept 15, 2023 18:29:18 GMT -7
I really enjoy racing with my friends, so when I host a race I provide snacks, drinks and sometimes prizes because I choose to, not because I'm obligated or because it's expected but because I want to. I don't see a need for a fee to cover maintenance costs at my track, if I have a track problem I will fix it and I know that others would likely help me out if I asked for help.
Chris
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Post by Tom Dolan on Sept 15, 2023 20:20:09 GMT -7
Wow, didn't mean to piss people off for starting all this shit, but I won't apologize for it either. Tom
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Post by grenade10 on Sept 16, 2023 12:17:01 GMT -7
For those who have raced at my track, I usually do pizza, BBQ or something similar. My reason is that I am actually the longest drive for all but Marc and Craig and it really a drive for Bruce and Jim. For perspective, for me to run at Colpar and get some practice, I leave my house at 9:30, get Marc at 10:15, Craig at 10:30 and if traffic is good we arrive 11:30 / 12:00 and that does not leave much time to grab something to eat.
So racers coming up to my track, I try to provide something as rarely do we leave much before 4:00.
Out of all the ideas I like Marc G's suggestion and I think we should pay something to Colpar as well for them to maintain the track, keep the lights on and maybe have us on the schedule. Not hard to bump us if someone else is paying to use the track.
If I want to go over on the food cost that is totally on the race host. But the funds can help keep the track up, maintain "House Controllers" pay for some T-N-T ........
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Post by Tom Dolan on Sept 16, 2023 14:50:29 GMT -7
As far as the Colpar track goes I check it almost every time I'm in the store and there is almost always damage I have to fix. Colpar doesn't maintain the track, I do. There is always something to do to it to keep it running. I also supply the copper tape for rail repairs. The other day someone walked off with one of the rental controllers so the store had to buy a new one. I built the track with no help (and some of my own money) and rarely get a thank you for maintaining it. We don't have to collect a fee for Colpar to run there because they really don't take care of it.
Tom
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Post by Tom Dolan on Sept 16, 2023 14:56:03 GMT -7
Here is my final word on this. I am not putting words or thoughts in anybodies mouth but from my perspective, Harry tends to maybe go overboard with feeding the racers which is appreciated but I think he does so because he enjoys having his friends over to race. I can't believe he is expecting a reimbursement to pay for the food that he generously supplied. Marc W a track that I have not run on yet, will smoke a pork shoulder for two reasons I think, correct me if I am wrong Marc. First he also enjoys having racer over and he has a love for smoking meat and from what I understand he is quite good at it. When you invite people over your house for a BBQ do you charge them for the food? Again my final word on this subject. My initial post was just a suggestion, not a requirement. There is no need for ANYONE to get so upset about it. Tom
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Post by DennLeo on Sept 16, 2023 15:36:27 GMT -7
Lets forget about it and just move on.
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Post by David C on Sept 18, 2023 10:29:13 GMT -7
This seem to be being blown out of proportion and I feel Dennis is being attacked here. 1) if you host a “BBQ” and ask people to bring a dish you are in fact hosting a potluck not a personal event. 2) Tom and Jim for the longest time were then only tracks that had snacks 3) not everyone actually eats the snacks or takes the drinks (I do) 4) if you are hosting a party at your house do you charge people to come? Not since college has someone paid to get in a party. 5) track owners CHOOSE to hold races at their own houses and CHOOSE to build layouts that they wish the club and or friends to join in on fun with. 6) tech is done when it is layed out in the individual class rules not for every class 7) the racing committee was created to make racing fun in the club 8) if refreshments are such a big deal let everyone fend for themselves 9) if your concerned about track maintenance wouldn’t you have the same maintenance weather or not the club raced on your track? Who pays for it then? This topic seems silly and if a track owner is relying on help for refreshments maybe they shouldn’t be hosting to begin with or just not offer any. Everyone has taken it upon themselves to provide refreshments and have not been pressured to do so. Jim how much money have you had to spend on the track from the club use and Tom as well? I agree, It is being blown out of proportion. If anyone feels I attacked Dennis please accept my apology. And I hope people don't think I've come out of hibernation and started making up rules and accepted practices since this club was formed. I am only trying to bring back these rules and accepted practices that seem to have gone by the wayside. But, there was also the $1.00 per car entered to help(not totally pay back) the track owner defray some of the costs of providing snacks/drinks. I remember Walter P. would put out a "tips accepted" jar also. Who remembers this? 1) I agree. If it was a "BBQ" the host might ask the guests and the guests would usually ask the host if anything should be brought to this potluck/BBQ. 2) Even before Tom and Jim were the only tracks, with snacks, there were a handful of others that had tracks that provided snacks... before most of the current members were involved. And the $1.00 surcharge/entry fee, per car, whatever you want to call it was the "accepted practice" with half going to the track host and the other half going to the club. 3) Agreed. Not everyone eats the snack, drinks or BBQ(?). Some bring their own. Some just ate so they are full to begin with. 4) If I was hosting a "party" I wouldn't be charging $$$ But it's not a party or a BBQ. 5) Track owners do CHOOSE to build their layouts and do choose to hold RACES not parties or BBQs at their house. Some spend more $$$and time on their tracks than others and that's their fault if they want to spend more $$$ and time on their tracks. Nobody's asking for a reimbursement. 6) Agreed. Tech is generally done before EVERY race unless otherwise specified in the class tech rules. The 1/16" minimum ground clearance seemed to really upset a lot of people when I brought it up even though it has always been in the rules, unless otherwise specified. 7) I'm still not sure what the "racing committee" does. What and where does it say they actually do? The president of the club no longer makes decisions? Or asks the membership via polling/voting on issues? 8) I really don't have issues with "providing" refreshments and snacks. And... some people do bring their own refreshments and snacks now. I personally don't eat pork or beef, so I usually bring my own snacks and eat before I come to a "race event". 9) I personally am not too concerned about my track Maintenace because I built it to (hopefully) last most racing sessions. Nobody except Tom does the Maintenace on the Colpar track and it gets raced/utilized a lot more than our home tracks. Who pays for a controller when someone inadvertently renders it useless by hooking up the alligator clips incorrectly? (another reason I chose XLR plugs). My intention is not to raise the ire of some members of the club, just have a meaningful discussion about current issues I see. If there was more (any at all) polling/voting on this message board instead of a "racing committee" making all the decisions instead. Another thought... For those 1:1 racers out there... that race real cars... Do you pay a "fee" of some sort before you can race on a track? How much? $1.00? Do they feed you a BBQ,snacks and drinks. Just having a discussion, not demanding anything.
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Post by jerryoleson on Sept 19, 2023 12:01:53 GMT -7
$475 for 2 races, 1 Sat 1 Sun, Saturday night dinner
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Max Verstappen
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Post by blr on Sept 20, 2023 6:44:42 GMT -7
I don’t think that anyone feels you came out of hibernation and started making new rules just trying to enforce your older out of date rules. The rules you had created years ago have only not been changed due to not being able to actually on the website and that has been discussed prior as well. Just the same that the club adopted a Racing Committee to make racing FUN and ENJOYABLE and set up a rule set based on the class of cars we are racing not just a bland set of rules for all classes. This has seemed to work well for everyone. It’s not that the rules you created were pushed to the wayside it’s that they were purely outdated. You state that the $1.00 is to defray from cost, but have you asked why no one has brought it up besides yourself? We have been doing things in an evolving way to reach a harmonious balance of fun and competition. Some track owners have put out dishes and some do not and that’s never an issue. The owners do if they want to and aren’t pressured to. Where as paying to get in a track now will pressure the owner to host with hors d’oeuvres. A good chunk of us still work full time and have families that we support and don’t always have time to get things for hosting an evening. There is a lot of talk about how things USED to be not how anyone wants to see the future. History showed obviously that the prior rule set didn’t make the group happy and so the group has evolved its rule making to suite the desires and wants of the club in present day. Instead of just bringing up how things used to be when who ever was in charge at that point let’s create productive discussions on new rules and how they will be if it the overall well being of the club not just certain members. And Dave C you seem to have missed about every single one of my points by a long shot and if you’d care to understand what I meant we can talk in person at Colpar this weekend.
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Max Verstappen
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Post by blr on Sept 20, 2023 7:09:30 GMT -7
And Dave C it depends on the 1:1 racing you are doing actually. I can speak for the following types as I do them myself. In SCCA as Jerry stated $500 gets you :50 min on track each day Saturday and Sunday with 2 sessions on Sunday and 3 on Saturday with dinner on Saturday with majors. Regionals is $400 and you get up to 2 practice sessions 2 qualifying sessions and 5 races with dinner, free beer, free water, free snacks all weekend. With Go Karts you pay $360 for the weekend with about the same amount of track time. In circle track both dirt and paved you pay between -$100 that’s right some places actually pay you to come out and just sign up up to about $75. That includes practice heat races and if you qualify the main events that pay out quite a bit of money. Autocross is $50 and gets you 3-5 runs Time Trials with SCCA is $225 and get you 3 20 min sessions But all of the options have championship opportunities, sponsorship payouts, and or prizes. Not to mention you are paying for the insurance, safety crews, track rental and maintenance that is required by racing on the pavement, as well as sanctioning. We don’t go racing to get BBQ snacks or drinks those are given away to show appreciation that we came.
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Post by Tom Dolan on Sept 20, 2023 7:25:38 GMT -7
Wow!! What started out as a suggestion has turned into a nightmare. We abided by the original rules- they are posted on the site BTW-- and we ALWAYS HAD FUN.
Tom
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Jim W
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Post by Jim W on Sept 20, 2023 11:30:27 GMT -7
I been thinking about how we did things years ago. We have never paid anything to race on Wed nights. Most of these were held at Tom's place, just for fun. Others would hold an open track night on Wed, before the Race was held at their track on normally Saturday night. These Saturday Races were once a month and every 4 Races we ran a new series of two classes. Tom was the one that setup the classes and rules. Only on those once-a-month weekend Races did we put a dollar under each car for the race. Half was given to the track host and half went to the Club. Our dues for the Club were $20 a year then. The money kept piling up and we didn't use it for anything for years. The only things that I remember was some guys have gone to the Shelby Museum a couple times, and we did use some money to help Colpar with parts for the new track when they moved to their current location. After Colpar's track was up and running, we started racing there on Wed nights.
We voted once to buy white kits for all members and later we had a race with those cars. We stopped collecting dues because we didn't need the money for the Club. We started collecting the money only to show who is active in the Club. We now collect $5 at the start of each year. I have been in 4 different Slotcar Clubs and this one is the only one that collects dues. The three other Clubs have had a Race once a month, one now does twice a month. The Vintage Club does not Race in the Summer months.
Jim W
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Post by David C on Sept 25, 2023 12:01:10 GMT -7
I'm sorry for creating such a controversy over this fee thing. I didn't mean for it to blow out of proportion. As the "poll" also indicates with only 6 people voting and its a tie that it's nothing that most of the club cares about either way. I will not be asking for anything when hosting a race again.
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