dkmura
Administrator
Posts: 421 
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Post by dkmura on Feb 27, 2024 17:06:43 GMT -7
With nominations closing later today (2/27/24) and SIX qualified candidates, look for an online vote to be instituted shortly.
With a return to more 1:1 D2D racing this year, I doubt I'll be able to make as many races as required by our board rules. Hell, I can barely do enough to prep my Nissan for SCCA competition. But best of luck to the new board in keeping RMSCC running with fair and fun races!
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Post by Tom Dolan on Feb 29, 2024 21:02:10 GMT -7
When will the poll start?
Tom
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phlash
Administrator
Posts: 660
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Post by phlash on Mar 1, 2024 10:40:45 GMT -7
The method for ensuring privacy when conducting the poll vote is currently being discussed by the committee.
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Post by David C on Mar 1, 2024 18:25:05 GMT -7
The method for ensuring privacy when conducting the poll vote is currently being discussed by the committee. Is there an issue with using the "poll" section? Does that not have certain "privacy" firewalls? |
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Post by David C on Mar 3, 2024 10:30:58 GMT -7
With nominations closing later today (2/27/24) and SIX qualified candidates, look for an online vote to be instituted shortly. With a return to more 1:1 D2D racing this year, I doubt I'll be able to make as many races as required by our board rules. Hell, I can barely do enough to prep my Nissan for SCCA competition. But best of luck to the new board in keeping RMSCC running with fair and fun races! I agree with David M that an "online" vote of the new "racing committee" take place. It is the only way to ensure YOUR vote is counted as opposed to a "secret" vote counted by just one or two individuals that may have a bias as to who they would "prefer" to have on any officers or committee members. |
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Post by David C on Mar 3, 2024 10:40:26 GMT -7
The method for ensuring privacy when conducting the poll vote is currently being discussed by the committee. Why are you concerned about "privacy" when voting for a club officer or a committee member. Are you afraid of retribution or angst from another member? I would rather SEE my vote counted in an online public poll as opposed to a "secret" ballot counted by one or two members that might have a bias as to who they would like to see as a club officer or "racing committee" member. Only an admin on this message board can see who and how they voted not all the members. |
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Jim W
Administrator
Posts: 1,644
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Post by Jim W on Mar 3, 2024 14:02:11 GMT -7
We conducted the Voting at Harry's track, using the same method we used the President voting at Colpar. We used the blank paper tabs, and they were all collected by the President, Jim Weickum. He then called the five members that were not able to make the race and each of those five members were able to cast their votes for the 6 Candidates. The results are completed now.
Jim Weickum
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Administrator
Max Verstappen
Posts: 83
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Post by blr on Mar 3, 2024 15:33:47 GMT -7
The method for ensuring privacy when conducting the poll vote is currently being discussed by the committee. Why are you concerned about "privacy" when voting for a club officer or a committee member. Are you afraid of retribution or angst from another member? I would rather SEE my vote counted in an online public poll as opposed to a "secret" ballot counted by one or two members that might have a bias as to who they would like to see as a club officer or "racing committee" member. Only an admin on this message board can see who and how they voted not all the members. All voting done in this country for officials is done in a private manner. We are a group of friends that can trust eachother. |
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phlash
Administrator
Posts: 660
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Post by phlash on Mar 3, 2024 17:50:49 GMT -7
With nominations closing later today (2/27/24) and SIX qualified candidates, look for an online vote to be instituted shortly. I agree with David M that an "online" vote of the new "racing committee" take place. It is the only way to ensure YOUR vote is counted as opposed to a "secret" vote counted by just one or two individuals that may have a bias as to who they would "prefer" to have on any officers or committee members. David C, when David M made his statement; "look for an online vote to be instituted shortly", I was expecting him to post the six candidates in the "poll" section and to administer the voting process as well as the opening and closing dates/time restrictions. The committee was never consulted before making that statement, however on Wednesday the 28th, he posted in the committee thread his request for input on how we thought it should be conducted. I listed my own suggestions and waited for responses, and only received one from Jim. Among my suggestions, was that the vote be conducted in the same manner as the "Presidential" vote on February 3rd; by paper ballot, and in-person immediately before the next race meeting at Colpar on March 16th. I stated that a "poll" vote implemented on the website enables anyone who logs in, to "see" how other member's votes are cast. This is a fact, and is evidenced by polls conducted in the past. The only time a member's votes cannot be "seen" is when the poll has "closed" and the results are finalized. I don't recall an option whereby only the administrators can "see" the votes cast by members, while they themselves (members) cannot. And if that were indeed the case, would you not then "suspect" these selfsame administrators to "manipulate" results to their own "preferences"? Some candidates may well have felt insulted if they "see" that certain members did not cast their votes for them. This is specifically why I suggested the in-person paper ballot. It was during Saturday's race at Harry's that David M approached me suggesting that a vote be conducted right there, because neither he nor Jim Weickum would be attending the March 16th race at Colpar. And also importantly, the need to post the 2nd Quarter Schedule as soon as possible, which the incoming committee will be responsible for. I was not really prepared for making an on-the-spot decision since the committee had not even completely discussed, much less agreed to the final voting-process determination. Nonetheless, this last-minute "agreement" was made, taking into account the requirement to solicit the votes from the members who were not at Harry's, Saturday. My stated reservations regarding criticisms that would inevitably arise, were founded when you posted your statements. |
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Post by Tom Dolan on Mar 3, 2024 21:23:42 GMT -7
For Robert--yes, only admins can see who voted, but they can't see HOW they voted. I know this since, as admin on the vintage club board, I checked into it. You can also adjust the poll so results can't be seen until the poll is locked. I post this just as an FYI.
Tom
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Post by David C on Mar 4, 2024 8:39:16 GMT -7
"I stated that a "poll" vote implemented on the website enables anyone who logs in, to "see" how other member's votes are cast. This is a fact, and is evidenced by polls conducted in the past. The only time a member's votes cannot be "seen" is when the poll has "closed" and the results are finalized."
Robert, Thank you for this information. I apologize for my misinformation. I guess I was using old information that I had know from when I was the President of the club 7 years ago when only the admins could see who voted. I guess the format has changed since then.
I just think it is bad optics how the president counts the "secret" ballot by himself with no oversight from the membership. Another question I have is when the vote for president of this club was taken by "secret" paper ballots on February 3rd, with only members physically present at that time, excluding other paying members, who counted those votes? I'm sure if Tom or I had counted any "secret" votes and the outcome was different everyone would accept the results. Again, all about optics. Maybe in the future the voting can be preplanned better and with better optics and oversight.
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Administrator
Max Verstappen
Posts: 83
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Post by blr on Mar 4, 2024 13:26:39 GMT -7
"I stated that a "poll" vote implemented on the website enables anyone who logs in, to "see" how other member's votes are cast. This is a fact, and is evidenced by polls conducted in the past. The only time a member's votes cannot be "seen" is when the poll has "closed" and the results are finalized." Robert, Thank you for this information. I apologize for my misinformation. I guess I was using old information that I had know from when I was the President of the club 7 years ago when only the admins could see who voted. I guess the format has changed since then. I just think it is bad optics how the president counts the "secret" ballot by himself with no oversight from the membership. Another question I have is when the vote for president of this club was taken by "secret" paper ballots on February 3rd, with only members physically present at that time, excluding other paying members, who counted those votes? I'm sure if Tom or I had counted any "secret" votes and the outcome was different everyone would accept the results. Again, all about optics. Maybe in the future the voting can be preplanned better and with better optics and oversight. Dave C. I actually counted those votes and it wasn’t in private it was at the little table behind the large one we all had the meeting at. Given I had taken charge of the meeting to get it rolling and saw it through I handed out the paper and counted it. I even left the papers on the table for public sight after I left to go get Nick. I can give you totals for each candidate if need be. The members that were not at the meeting were not contacted due to the fact that the meeting was know for about a month prior and that was exactly what we were going to be going over and voting on and if they didn’t show that meant they didn’t care to vote. Even later that day every member was there and was informed what had happened and to my knowledge didn’t care to cast a vote. On this vote I’m confused why you didn’t bring up any concerns at the time of the vote when I handed you the pen and paper to cast your vote so a proper discussion could be had at that time instead of trying to turn back time after the fact. |
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Jim W
Administrator
Posts: 1,644
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Post by Jim W on Mar 5, 2024 8:54:16 GMT -7
I am concerned about all of the discussion on the voting and how the results were found. This club has not had a vote for any members for a Board position for about 10 years. The last vote was when only three members showed up and since they were there, those three members were "voted" in and held the Board positions. There was not any other discussion needed, they held those positions for two years, until two of them stepped down. Jerry has been the Treasurer since that night of the "voting".
I was given the "keys" to this Club when two members couldn't get along with each other and each decided that they would not run in the both the Vintage Club and the RMSCC. One stayed in the RMSCC and the other stayed in the Vintage Club. Since I was given the Administration rights, the "keys", I soon added some other members to help with the club. I later added what I called the "Racing Committee", to help get the Club going in a direction that we felt would improve our racing. The Racing Committee: David M., John P. and Robert were the guys that made this Club become a fun place to be. David M. thought up a way to add a little fun to a class. He had the idea of using teams when we ran the NSR Formula 86/89 class. We kept track of points for both, the teams and individual. My one input was we needed to check/inspect the cars. I felt that there could be a way of having an advantage with a car unless we could control the track width. This was enough to prevent a member from racing anymore with the Club. You have to understand that the ride height was also going to be checked. This member didn't want his cars checked, so he never raced with us again.
Jim W
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Post by David C on Mar 5, 2024 9:32:09 GMT -7
Romain... I appreciate your effort to "take charge of the meeting" and to get things rolling... I was making a comparison of how the voting for "racing committee" was accomplished and voting for the president of the club was done... by one person. Could one person that tallies votes have a bias? Maybe... and maybe not. I was just trying to point out that I believe the voting, the next time could be done differently possibly using the poll section to see the votes counted. But Robert enlightened me that ALL members could see how people voted where I had believed from my years as an admin earlier that only admins could see who or how had voted. I apologize for that mistake. And if the club prefers to vote with secret paper ballots counted by one person, so be it. I know the rules I created for this club at its inception are old and outdated along with any if not all of my thoughts and ideas so I will try to keep my thoughts and ideas to myself from now on.
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Post by Tom Dolan on Mar 5, 2024 10:13:05 GMT -7
Not all members can see who voted, only admins, but even admins can't see How they voted.
Tom
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